Recently, my good friend Thumper’s brother passed away. He e-mailed me to tell me, and also asked me how I, as an atheist, feel about death.
I can’t speak for any other atheist in this regard, (which is my my post is not titled “atheists on death”) but I can certainly speak for myself.
When people die, I wouldn’t dream of telling their surviving (and afterlife-believing) friends and family that actually, all evidence points to the fact that when your brain ceases to function, nothing about your personality or consciousness lives on. To me, dreams of being reunited with your deceased loved one and skipping through wondrous heavenly meadows while being united with god in perfection is the worst kind of wishful thinking – it wishes for happiness and a feeling of completion in the nothingness that is death. But, if it makes grieving people grieve a little less, it would be wrong of me to prolong or add to their suffering and sadness.
Having said that, when people die, I do not feel sadness for the person who has died. I know they can no longer experience happiness, but they can also no longer feel sorrow, pain, or anything else for that matter. My sadness is both selfish and altruistic, but is sadness for the living, not the dead. When someone I know dies, it bothers me that I will no longer get to hear their story, or have their living influence on my life and the world, and it bothers me that they will miss out on parts of the world they wuld have otherwise experience had they lived longer. I feel compassion and empathy for their friends and family, who will miss them for the same reasons, I feel the same for the world that will no longer experience them.
Humanism and atheism is a solace in the face of death. I do not have the motivation of a god to question. I do not wonder why God would let the immoral criminals die a peaceful death while letting moral, ethical, good people die deaths of miserable suffering. I do not wonder why god would let a child get killed in the street, let children die of starvation or dehydration, or for that matter, drown every human on earth except for one family whose dad worshiped god extra hard. I do not wonder if my blaspheming but otherwise amazing friend is now spending an eternity in hellfire, if my dead friend was good enough, faithful enough, or did the right things. I do not wonder if my friend will be reincarnated as a worm. To me death is death, and the only loss is the loss felt palpably by the still alive.
Having said that, it is of no comfort when well-intentioned people attempt to console me by informing me that my lost loved-one is in a better place. This is not an expression of sorrow, but an expression of fake silver-lining. It’s like telling me the mugger probably needed the money in my wallet more than I did. I more heartfelt and realistic condolence would be to feel empathy and pure sorrow rather than try to coat my sorrow in a placebo. It is a terrible thing when people die.
Also, let’s not forget that future non-existence is no worse than the non-existence before birth, and complaining about death is a disservice to the countless people that do not get the chance to be born. The number of possible combinations of human DNA outnumbers the actual living and once-living combinations of human DNA so much that we can scarcely comprehend it – it is a mere bucket of water taken from the ocean. People who are born and die get to experience what countless people will never experience.
One thing I don’t really get is the ritual of burial or cremation. The funeral business is booming – making grieving loved ones feel like they don’t care for the body of the dead if they don’t purchase the deluxe hand carved mohogony cushy velvety sealed casket that won’t protect your loved one from decay (and may accelerate it), or the very extra special urn for the ashes if your loved one is cremated.
I’m donating my body to science. They can harvest all of my useful organs, and use the rest of me for research. I would not be opposed to a small chunk of me (like my arm?) being cremated for the purposes of my living family members to use some of my remains to make cool jewelry though.
What about you guys? How do you feel about death as it related to atheism?
Contact Ziztur at ZizturIsWrong at gmail dot com.
Follow Ziztur on Twitter
Death among many faithful is a time of thanks and reflections. It is a time to thank god for having created the wonderful friend or family member now passed away.It is a time to reflect on the many ways the person made a difference in the world. Like when a stone drops into a lake, the stone disappears, but the waves left behind continue.Eternity after death is like that. Our bodies may be gone, but the waves we made can go on forever.I have been to many funerals, and never once have I heard the minister describe the afterlife as a place with lush meadows and god sitting in a golden throne.Atheists may want to avoid talking religious imagery and text so literally. Upon my death, as a faithful person, I’m not looking for reunion with dead family members or a euphoric anything. I just hope I’ve made enough of a positive difference that some people show up at my funeral.Regarding embalming or a concrete burial vault, I’m thinking of instead refrigeration and a muslin burial shroud. No casket, buried six feet under, to return my body to the natural realm.I heard cemeteries with embalmed corpses, steel caskets, and concrete burial vaults compared to massive, toxic, landfills. I don’t think I want to be part of that.
Death among many faithful is a time of thanks and reflections. It is a time to thank god for having created the wonderful friend or family member now passed away.It is a time to reflect on the many ways the person made a difference in the world. Like when a stone drops into a lake, the stone disappears, but the waves left behind continue.Eternity after death is like that. Our bodies may be gone, but the waves we made can go on forever.I have been to many funerals, and never once have I heard the minister describe the afterlife as a place with lush meadows and god sitting in a golden throne.Atheists may want to avoid talking religious imagery and text so literally. Upon my death, as a faithful person, I’m not looking for reunion with dead family members or a euphoric anything. I just hope I’ve made enough of a positive difference that some people show up at my funeral.Regarding embalming or a concrete burial vault, I’m thinking of instead refrigeration and a muslin burial shroud. No casket, buried six feet under, to return my body to the natural realm.I heard cemeteries with embalmed corpses, steel caskets, and concrete burial vaults compared to massive, toxic, landfills. I don’t think I want to be part of that.
Death among many faithful is a time of thanks and reflections. It is a time to thank god for having created the wonderful friend or family member now passed away.It is a time to reflect on the many ways the person made a difference in the world. Like when a stone drops into a lake, the stone disappears, but the waves left behind continue.Eternity after death is like that. Our bodies may be gone, but the waves we made can go on forever.I have been to many funerals, and never once have I heard the minister describe the afterlife as a place with lush meadows and god sitting in a golden throne.Atheists may want to avoid talking religious imagery and text so literally. Upon my death, as a faithful person, I’m not looking for reunion with dead family members or a euphoric anything. I just hope I’ve made enough of a positive difference that some people show up at my funeral.Regarding embalming or a concrete burial vault, I’m thinking of instead refrigeration and a muslin burial shroud. No casket, buried six feet under, to return my body to the natural realm.I heard cemeteries with embalmed corpses, steel caskets, and concrete burial vaults compared to massive, toxic, landfills. I don’t think I want to be part of that.
Well, I kinda feel obligated to comment on this one. I am holding up rather well all things considered. We just spent all yesterday cleaning up the house.As far as my views on death go, I don’t know what happens for sure. In my brothers case, I can only hope the Christians are just dead wrong or else he is so screwed. However what I feel is the most likely scenario is what Ziztur believes, and that is that when we die we just slip into oblivion. Personally that thought doesn’t really bother me, and actually comforts me in his case. He wasn’t exactly the most virtuous person. I wouldn’t say he was “evil” or even a bad person, but he often had rather flexible standards of morality. He was kinda hating life in the end. He suffered from advanced neuropathy and was in constant pain, had a mountain of debt that he likely would never have paid off, and was one of the loneliest people I’ve known (even though he did have a lot of people who really did care for him).All this being said, it always amazes me how people can get so offended that you don’t believe what you do when it comes to this. You can’t control what you truly believe no matter how much you wish that you can. I really do wish I could believe that when you die you go to heaven and live out eternity in peace and happiness, but no matter how much I said that was what I believed, deep down inside that just wouldn’t be true. Heck, in a way I envy the people who can truly believe something like that.That being said I also find it amazing how people try and put on a front that they believe in an afterlife, or that they are even the religion they say they are. I can’t tell you how many people I’ve gotten to admit that they aren’t really the religion they say they are, and that really they just say they are a particular religion for a sense of belonging and community (which I completely understand). For example I’ve talked to people who label themselves christian, but then later admit that they don’t really think that Jesus was the son of God and died for our sins (they often think of being a real person who had some great moral philosophies, but they don’t honestly believe in the whole divinity of Christ thing). A lot of the younger Jewish community is the same way (can’t speak for the older community because I haven’t discussed it with them), they view their Jewishness as more of a race, culture, or community than an actual religion.Ziztur, I have to say I find it odd that you find it odd that people would want to minimize the pain people feel when loved ones pass away. There isn’t a whole lot a wouldn’t do to take away some of the pain my mom and dad feel right now. I know there isn’t a whole lot I can do, but if I could I would.Anyway, that’s my thoughts on the matter.
Cracken, I think you’ve mentioned several times that atheists should not take the Bible literally – you are incorrect in assuming we do. We have a problem with the people who do, and a lot of people do take the Bible very literally. Theists may want to avoid taking the text of atheists so literally, too. So, chill with the strawmen.I don’t know where you got the golden throne thing, I didn’t say that.I HAVE been to a funeral where the individual was described as being able to run through the meadows again (they had a disability), so again, you have a small sample size even if you have been to many funerals. Flimsy and I also had a dead friend of his described as being able to do that amazing motorcycle trick in heaven that he could not do here on earth. Were they being literal? They seemed to sincerely be.I know tons of faithful people, and death to them does not seem like the thanks and reflection you describe. Thanks is present, but it is only a part of the grief. I find it odd you would want to minimize the pain people feel when losing a loved one like that. Perhaps you yourself are not looking for reunion with your family members, but lots of theists are, literally, hoping to be reunited. and lots of them aren’t. Many people have their own version of the afterlife.
Well, I kinda feel obligated to comment on this one. I am holding up rather well all things considered. We just spent all yesterday cleaning up the house.As far as my views on death go, I don’t know what happens for sure. In my brothers case, I can only hope the Christians are just dead wrong or else he is so screwed. However what I feel is the most likely scenario is what Ziztur believes, and that is that when we die we just slip into oblivion. Personally that thought doesn’t really bother me, and actually comforts me in his case. He wasn’t exactly the most virtuous person. I wouldn’t say he was “evil” or even a bad person, but he often had rather flexible standards of morality. He was kinda hating life in the end. He suffered from advanced neuropathy and was in constant pain, had a mountain of debt that he likely would never have paid off, and was one of the loneliest people I’ve known (even though he did have a lot of people who really did care for him).All this being said, it always amazes me how people can get so offended that you don’t believe what you do when it comes to this. You can’t control what you truly believe no matter how much you wish that you can. I really do wish I could believe that when you die you go to heaven and live out eternity in peace and happiness, but no matter how much I said that was what I believed, deep down inside that just wouldn’t be true. Heck, in a way I envy the people who can truly believe something like that.That being said I also find it amazing how people try and put on a front that they believe in an afterlife, or that they are even the religion they say they are. I can’t tell you how many people I’ve gotten to admit that they aren’t really the religion they say they are, and that really they just say they are a particular religion for a sense of belonging and community (which I completely understand). For example I’ve talked to people who label themselves christian, but then later admit that they don’t really think that Jesus was the son of God and died for our sins (they often think of being a real person who had some great moral philosophies, but they don’t honestly believe in the whole divinity of Christ thing). A lot of the younger Jewish community is the same way (can’t speak for the older community because I haven’t discussed it with them), they view their Jewishness as more of a race, culture, or community than an actual religion.Ziztur, I have to say I find it odd that you find it odd that people would want to minimize the pain people feel when loved ones pass away. There isn’t a whole lot a wouldn’t do to take away some of the pain my mom and dad feel right now. I know there isn’t a whole lot I can do, but if I could I would.Anyway, that’s my thoughts on the matter.
Cracken, I think you’ve mentioned several times that atheists should not take the Bible literally – you are incorrect in assuming we do. We have a problem with the people who do, and a lot of people do take the Bible very literally. Theists may want to avoid taking the text of atheists so literally, too. So, chill with the strawmen.I don’t know where you got the golden throne thing, I didn’t say that.I HAVE been to a funeral where the individual was described as being able to run through the meadows again (they had a disability), so again, you have a small sample size even if you have been to many funerals. Flimsy and I also had a dead friend of his described as being able to do that amazing motorcycle trick in heaven that he could not do here on earth. Were they being literal? They seemed to sincerely be.I know tons of faithful people, and death to them does not seem like the thanks and reflection you describe. Thanks is present, but it is only a part of the grief. I find it odd you would want to minimize the pain people feel when losing a loved one like that. Perhaps you yourself are not looking for reunion with your family members, but lots of theists are, literally, hoping to be reunited. and lots of them aren’t. Many people have their own version of the afterlife.
Well, I kinda feel obligated to comment on this one. I am holding up rather well all things considered. We just spent all yesterday cleaning up the house.As far as my views on death go, I don’t know what happens for sure. In my brothers case, I can only hope the Christians are just dead wrong or else he is so screwed. However what I feel is the most likely scenario is what Ziztur believes, and that is that when we die we just slip into oblivion. Personally that thought doesn’t really bother me, and actually comforts me in his case. He wasn’t exactly the most virtuous person. I wouldn’t say he was “evil” or even a bad person, but he often had rather flexible standards of morality. He was kinda hating life in the end. He suffered from advanced neuropathy and was in constant pain, had a mountain of debt that he likely would never have paid off, and was one of the loneliest people I’ve known (even though he did have a lot of people who really did care for him).All this being said, it always amazes me how people can get so offended that you don’t believe what you do when it comes to this. You can’t control what you truly believe no matter how much you wish that you can. I really do wish I could believe that when you die you go to heaven and live out eternity in peace and happiness, but no matter how much I said that was what I believed, deep down inside that just wouldn’t be true. Heck, in a way I envy the people who can truly believe something like that.That being said I also find it amazing how people try and put on a front that they believe in an afterlife, or that they are even the religion they say they are. I can’t tell you how many people I’ve gotten to admit that they aren’t really the religion they say they are, and that really they just say they are a particular religion for a sense of belonging and community (which I completely understand). For example I’ve talked to people who label themselves christian, but then later admit that they don’t really think that Jesus was the son of God and died for our sins (they often think of being a real person who had some great moral philosophies, but they don’t honestly believe in the whole divinity of Christ thing). A lot of the younger Jewish community is the same way (can’t speak for the older community because I haven’t discussed it with them), they view their Jewishness as more of a race, culture, or community than an actual religion.Ziztur, I have to say I find it odd that you find it odd that people would want to minimize the pain people feel when loved ones pass away. There isn’t a whole lot a wouldn’t do to take away some of the pain my mom and dad feel right now. I know there isn’t a whole lot I can do, but if I could I would.Anyway, that’s my thoughts on the matter.
Cracken, I think you’ve mentioned several times that atheists should not take the Bible literally – you are incorrect in assuming we do. We have a problem with the people who do, and a lot of people do take the Bible very literally. Theists may want to avoid taking the text of atheists so literally, too. So, chill with the strawmen.I don’t know where you got the golden throne thing, I didn’t say that.I HAVE been to a funeral where the individual was described as being able to run through the meadows again (they had a disability), so again, you have a small sample size even if you have been to many funerals. Flimsy and I also had a dead friend of his described as being able to do that amazing motorcycle trick in heaven that he could not do here on earth. Were they being literal? They seemed to sincerely be.I know tons of faithful people, and death to them does not seem like the thanks and reflection you describe. Thanks is present, but it is only a part of the grief. I find it odd you would want to minimize the pain people feel when losing a loved one like that. Perhaps you yourself are not looking for reunion with your family members, but lots of theists are, literally, hoping to be reunited. and lots of them aren’t. Many people have their own version of the afterlife.
Depends on the definition of heathen – but I would think in most cases yes.
In terms of grieving, the pain depends alot on the circumstances surrounding the death.Was the person old? Young? Was the death expected? A surprise?If a person lives to a 100, has generations of family around, and dies peacefully, in her sleep, there’s probably alot less wailing than if a 30 something father of three is killed in a car accident, leaving behind a stay at home and three children.In the case of losing a young father, the grief and pain can last for years. And religion probably has very little to do with any of it. Oh, by the way… happy new year! Question: Is an atheist automatically a heathen? I’m going to look heathen on “wikipedia”!
Oh no, that’s not what my comment meant at all!I meant that I find it odd that Cracken would want to pretend that people are not feeling the pain they are feeling by telling me that death for theists is a time of thanks and reflection. To me, this is minimizing (making light of, to regard or treat as less important than it really is; belittle) the pain people are actually feeling.
Depends on the definition of heathen – but I would think in most cases yes.
In terms of grieving, the pain depends alot on the circumstances surrounding the death.Was the person old? Young? Was the death expected? A surprise?If a person lives to a 100, has generations of family around, and dies peacefully, in her sleep, there’s probably alot less wailing than if a 30 something father of three is killed in a car accident, leaving behind a stay at home and three children.In the case of losing a young father, the grief and pain can last for years. And religion probably has very little to do with any of it. Oh, by the way… happy new year! Question: Is an atheist automatically a heathen? I’m going to look heathen on “wikipedia”!
Oh no, that’s not what my comment meant at all!I meant that I find it odd that Cracken would want to pretend that people are not feeling the pain they are feeling by telling me that death for theists is a time of thanks and reflection. To me, this is minimizing (making light of, to regard or treat as less important than it really is; belittle) the pain people are actually feeling.
Depends on the definition of heathen – but I would think in most cases yes.
In terms of grieving, the pain depends alot on the circumstances surrounding the death.Was the person old? Young? Was the death expected? A surprise?If a person lives to a 100, has generations of family around, and dies peacefully, in her sleep, there’s probably alot less wailing than if a 30 something father of three is killed in a car accident, leaving behind a stay at home and three children.In the case of losing a young father, the grief and pain can last for years. And religion probably has very little to do with any of it. Oh, by the way… happy new year! Question: Is an atheist automatically a heathen? I’m going to look heathen on “wikipedia”!
Oh no, that’s not what my comment meant at all!I meant that I find it odd that Cracken would want to pretend that people are not feeling the pain they are feeling by telling me that death for theists is a time of thanks and reflection. To me, this is minimizing (making light of, to regard or treat as less important than it really is; belittle) the pain people are actually feeling.